They say Restored Redlines are absolutely worthless, Well no more!!!

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driven642	They say Restored Redlines are absolutely worthless, Well no more!!!		Lead	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 9 06/28/08 07:27 PM	Tags : None Fellow Redline Collectors, Several years ago in 2003 I started collecting redlines for the first time since childhood. Those cars really brought back some fond memories. I bought most of my collection online through EBay and found sometimes buying them in this fashion came with some pitfalls. I bough several cars and when I received them they were not as they were described in the EBay ad and even the picture did not show the flaw. I know you serious buyers like I have come across this same problem. THIS REALLY MADE ME MAD. So to even the odds of this happening to me again, being the computer programmer that I am, I have created a program that would ask all of the necessary questions about a car and it's package and give a more accurate condition setting and standard description. That program is called Price Redline Evaluator 2.0. My program uses the standard by which most collectors evaluate their cars now manually. If we were to adopt this program as a possible standard, I believe we will all benefit from its use and level the field against problems like I experienced. The other problem is I am tired of die hard Redline Collectors stating that restored redlines are WORTHLESS, because we all know they are worth more than nothing. Everyone knows when you purchase let's say a 1:1 old 1967 Ford Mustang and you decide to restore that it is not worthless. Taking a beater Redline and cleaning it up and restoring it to mint condition, I believe it is worth something. HERE'S WHERE I UNIT AND HELP RESTORERS. With this in mind, I built Price Redline Evaluator 2.0 to give a good value for restored redlines, one that is fair and aligns with color variations. We can make restoration prices go up by all restorers using my program as a standard when they post to EBay with the auction description it makes when the evaluation is finished. That way my program becomes a standard and then when others use it they will see the value of restore redlines. WE CAN MAKE RESTORED REDLINE PRICES INCREASE IN VALUE TO A POINT WHERE RESTORERS ARE GETTING A TRUE VALUE LIKE WHEN YOU RESTORE ANYTHING IN REAL LIFE. This will only become real after we promote my program to everyone. HERE'S HOW YOU CAN HELP ME NOW could you please consider helping me BETA test my evaluator? I will value your input. If you signup to BETA test the program I will give you the program and all the upgrades FREE for a lifetime. I promise this will be worth your time. You can give me feedback and even tell me about errors you come across through my website. With us working together we can keep those who want to fool us by selling their inaccurately described Redlines at a high price no longer. It currently works on XP but not Vista. The Vista version will be out shortly. Here is the website link to get to my program. http://www.PriceRedline.com Thanks in advance for your help. Tony… Email: tony@PriceRedline.com http://www.PriceRedline.com Email: support@PriceRedline.com http://www.PriceRedline.com
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Playz with Carz		#1	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1748 06/28/08 08:02 PM	Tony, I admire your conviction on this project, but I'm afraid there's going to be one serious flaw in the over-all concept. I can see where this type of program "might" work well for accurately grading original cars as you would be grading on a known given .... the original condition of the car from the factory and how well it has survived the years from a given point. This can't be done with restorations. Why ? - because there is no standard as to how the restorations are done. Virtually every restorer uses different methods for achieving the final product - from the method the cast was prepared (polished or re-plated) to the type of base paint used (acrylic, enamel, lacquer, nail polish, etc.) to the type of clear that was used (enamel, lacquer, urethane, etc.). Not only what materials that were used, but the level of skill involved to apply these products. There are many skill levels involved in this hobby from beginner to seasoned expert. The quality of the finish is reflected in those skills. How can you accurately produce a grade based on skill ? I'm sure there are people who've been doing this a short time who can produce a better quality item than someone who's done many more just because of their skill level and materials that were used. Personally, I think the variables in accurately grading a restoration would be mind-numbing .... much more so than attempting to accurately grade an original - which in themselves can have a wide swing in tolerances. I think you're getting in way over your head in this attempt and can be almost impossible to create guidelines as such. Good luck in your endeavour. Mark.
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Jaime94cat		#2	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 471 06/29/08 07:07 AM	I wish this could be done but you are right on the money Mark. No Pun intended Rob
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bob29579		#3	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 25 06/29/08 10:47 AM	What are you wanting to do, just send us a disk or something like that? Greg.
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driven642		#4	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 9 06/29/08 01:58 PM	Mark, Thank you very much for your thoughts, it really made me think. Please take these ideas into consideration. Can you give me a list of names of good Reputable Redline Restoration Specialist (RRRS). Does a particular RRRS restore the same way each time they restore? Do people who hang out here know all of the RRRS? Are there some who consider some RRRS as premier? Could some RRRS works be considered as Picasso like, meaning a cut above the rest? Could some RRRS be considered a little less than premier? Could we create an association and that association certify a RRRS. Many associations do this to get recognition as authority for what they represent. Could you create a certificaton board of reputable RRRS. You could have several levels of certification based on skill and effort. A RRRS could have those levels of certification as a title to put behind their name, like Joe Fountain, CPA. Certified Public Accounts are a association of sorts that certify their own. Wow, could you think of the many ways this could work out for the best of the best of RRRS? We could create the association from this forum. We could create the levels and definations for those levels. Then we could use those definations to either test or look at works from these individuals to determine an appriate certification level We could promote our own hobby. We could have a list of RRRS with their levels listed so someone who wants to have their redlines restored will know who are the best of the best. I can imagine this going in many directons for the good of RRRS. The RRRS could issue restoraiton certificates for the cars they do and even number them and put their name with the certification level. REPUTABLE REDLINE RESTORATION SPECIALIST READ THIS IF NOTHING ELSE. I would love to put the names of the best of the best of RRRS on my website with a bio and sample pictures of their greatest works free of charge. If you are one of those RRRS and would like to get leads from my website just email me at Tony@priceredline.com. If this works out in some way I would not mind mentioning good RRRS in my software so others who use my software know about you and what processes you do for a restorals. What does any RRRS you have to loose? What is your thoughts. Tony... Email: support@PriceRedline.com http://www.PriceRedline.com
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bbb1970AMX	Positive and Great Attitude everyone here!	#5	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 585 06/29/08 03:49 PM	"Thumbs-Up!" Denny "Thungs?" Last Edited By: bbb1970AMX 07/01/08 05:39 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Playz with Carz		#6	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1748 06/29/08 06:06 PM	Tony, I've been mulling this whole concept over ever since you posted it, and for the life of me, I honestly don't see how you could accurately pull this off. Probably more than 99% of the guys that do restorations do this as a hobby .... I'd actually bet 100% as I don't know ANYone who does them for a living. That means we're all doing them as a hobby in addition to some doing them "professionally" as a side income. To answer the questions in your first paragraph, I'd give you mostly "no" with a couple "maybes" thrown in. An RRRS (I'll use your terminology) doesn't always use the same methods as we're always finding new ideas and products to try - some work for some instances and others not. There are a LOT of people doing restorations - and doing some great work - that have never passed through here. I'm sure there are a LOT of people doing excellent work that don't participate on ANY of the online venues - I've seen some great work by guys I've never heard of before, and like-wise, them us ! This brings me back to the fact of this being a hobby and being a hobby, there are no guidelines we follow as such. A hobby is a form of personal expression - to the point of being three dimensional ART. It's very difficult if not impossible to classify personal expression. I can't speak for anyone else, but I myself wouldn't want or desire to have this RRRS designation (even though I'm certain I "could" qualify). When a hobby - any hobby - begins to have guidelines or rules as to how the work should be done, you're going to start losing interest. Just in our own little corner of the restoration world here at the RLS, we have many levels of skill, from beginner to seasoned professionals. The great thing about this hobby is that none of us thinks we are better than the other. We all openly share our tips and tricks to help the "younger guys" hone their skills. I don't like the idea of putting "labels" on everyone based on their skills and abilities. If this was my JOB and I had to earn a living at it, it might be a totally different story - I'd want all the credations I could possibly attain in order to promote myself .... but that's not how this works. My quality of work is at the level I could probably do restorations on the side to make a few extra bucks, but I don't - and really don't have any interest in doing so either. I prefer to do them for myself and display them for really no one else but myself. I have in the past turned a hobby into a part-time business .... the business side grew to the point I didn't have time for the hobby .... the business consumed so much time, I lost interest due to the pressures of having to produce .... I ultimately gave up the business, but never went back to the hobby because the business caused me to lose interest altogether. That's where the difference lies. AS a business, I had set ways of doing certain things - they could be graded as you are intending - every one was produced using the same materials, etc. and could be equally graded in comparison to other similar products that were being mass produced. But what I was ultimately missing was the "one off" creations - those creations that had more ME in them. .... Maybe I'm rambling and getting off track .... I just don't like the thought of any kind of regiment being brought into the hobby. I also don't like the aspect of putting qualifications behind our names based on our skill levels. I've seen this happen in other hobbies and all it creates is a bunch of swelled heads. I've seen some modellers much more qualified than those who jumped through all the hoops to attain their certificate of qualification .... in the end, it means NOTHING. If everyone who does restorations was required to submit to an examination attesting to their qualifications, then you "might" have some means as to catagorize each individuals level of skill .... you would also have a LOT less folks willing to get into the hobby as well. Again - this is a hobby .... free time .... do what-ever you damn-well please time, attempt to infiltrate guide-lines and classifications, you're going to have a mass loss of interest. Another aspect that would need attention is the reproduction items used in the restoration process as well. I'm not going to go into detail on the who's and why's, but there are more than one source for parts, stickers and paint and different people have different preferences. There is no doubt that some of these items are better than others and not everyone uses (or can afford to) use the best of the best .... you can't "knock points off" a restoration because the person didn't use ABC's wheels or XYZ's paint !!! Not only is that not a fair assessment, it puts down the person's work and borders on slander to the company that causes the lesser grade for use of their product. As I said before, the number of variables are almost infinite due to this hobby bordering on personal expression rather than following predetermined guide-lines. That and the fact there are SO many people doing restorations for a number of reasons. Your original post made mention the reason for the guide was to assist people in knowing what they are buying on ebay .... ebay .... now that's a can of worms you'll never sort out !!! Ebay is home base for the restoration scammers. These are the guys who's sole intent is to rip people off - period. Getting restoration information out to the masses is just going to help promote the kind of stuff we try to stop. That, and the fact you will never get the scammers on board with this project to accurately grade what they are trying to hide !!! I've rambled enough for now .... I'm more than happy to argue and banter with you on this, but I'm going to be hard-pressed to believe this can be pulled off with any kind of accuracy. Mark.
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restojunkie		#7	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 643 06/30/08 02:19 PM	Yep, I think it would hinder more than help......I don't want my restoration work graded, that's not why I do it. I have sold my restores on eBay, some have sold higher than I imagined, and some got no bids.......it's a crap shoot anytime you try to sell. It sounds like you're really excited about this, but hang out here awhile and you'll find that most here feel the same way. It's just a fun hobby and we wouldn't want it regulated or labeled. Not to sound like a total a$$, but if we had a dime for every time someone found this site and tried to change things........... Scott G E T T I N ' M Y F I X R E S T O J U N K I E
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Playz with Carz		#8	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1748 06/30/08 02:22 PM	restojunkie wrote: Not to sound like a total a$$, but if we had a dime for every time someone found this site and tried to change things........... Scott Yup .... if it ain't broke .... Mark.
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restojunkie		#9	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 643 06/30/08 03:00 PM	There are many who find this site and immediately get dollar signs in their eyes........that's not what we're about ! One exception to this idea is member TimmyT (you rock, dude !), he has made a good business of doing restorations. His work brings top dollar and he earns every penny of it. We support TimmyT and what he has done for the hobby. The difference is that he is not greedy about it and enjoys the hobby aspect of it as much as the rest of us. Many of the other restorers have purchased his work because it is so awesome. We welcome you to the board and look forward to seeing pics of your work, Scott G E T T I N ' M Y F I X R E S T O J U N K I E
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shedeck		#10	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1085 06/30/08 06:09 PM Founder of the RLS Board	I think you guys are missing the point on this software Tony has. I have spent many hours with Tony on this software and do have a vested interest. The prices are merely a starting point or comparison to the other Redlines models that have been restored. You all seem to use other price guides. I know you don't use them as the gospel but rather than a reference to all the other redlines. I know that maybe the restores are not dead on in his program, but they are sure a good starting point. You will not find a price guide on original redlines close to market price than this one. I would suggest you guys download it and try it. The redline restorations are just a small little part of the program. It is really developed for grading original redlines at a standard, using a standard grading that everyone has access to. It will be a price list that is "on the fly" always changing. It will create a standard for people to understand and it also creates a nice printout to past on Ebay and other auctions. I wish I had a dime for every negative work said about the Redlineshop when I first Started. That was over 9 years ago. I am still around. I went in with Tony on this software because I saw something that had great potential. Here is someone trying to inject some standard in a hobby filled with deceit and fraud. So I would encourage you guys to download it and check it out. The only thing it can do is help. I would like to add that over the years I have had dozens of idea's brought to me regarding the Redline Hobby. This is the only one that I saw had a future. I don't back things on a whim. So you know it has to have some merit to it. Most of the Major Redline Collectors that have checked it out like it. Just Check it out www.priceredline.com JON SHEDECK Redline Shop
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Playz with Carz		#11	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1748 06/30/08 06:50 PM	Ok - Maybe I'll bite .... out of curiosity. By curiosity, it will be just that as I don't do restorations for anyone else, nor do I buy OR sell any restorations. I can see where this concept would work just fine for buying / selling original cars, even though I'm afraid you might not have the masses convinced on it .... I've seen the "reviews" from the "experts site" on this program. However, after thinking about it - the "experts" aren't going to be interested because they already know all the answers. For the newer collector, yes - there probably would be a great deal of benefit provided you can get all the sellers on board with the program. Now for the restoration aspect .... I can see no possible way that could ever be ironed out with any kind of accurate grading. As for the "inject some standard in a hobby filled with deceit and fraud" comment .... I'm sorry - I just had to chuckle ! The scammer restorers we see on ebay on a daily basis are in no way EVER going to conform to this program - it would defeat the exact reason they are doing what they are doing. That said - ok, this program DOES have great potential for the new to intermediate collector .... it will not by any means cure the scammers whose mission is to do just that - but it could assist those who honestly don't know any better. Restorations ? - without seeing the program, I'll say impossible .... but that's just my opinion having not even seen the program. I'll check it out and give a more accurate critique at that point. Mark.
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Playz with Carz		#12	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1748 06/30/08 06:59 PM	Ok .... I tried to download the program - properly filled out all my pertinent information, but it just wouldn't take. All it did was just kept refreshing the registration page (?) Mark.
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driven642		#13	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 9 06/30/08 07:07 PM	Ok, I understand what you are saying. I am just trying to help to make Redline restorations (works of art) increase in worth and be more than nothing and I think what I said in the original post will help in that endeavor. Here's the problem when I have spoke to others who like restorations and want to purchase from a RRRS, but don't know who or where to turn to. People can claim that they can do a good job but how do you really know? Someone here please tell me who are the best of the best RRRS so I may share that information to others. Maybe a better idea would be to make a registry of RRRS such as what Good Trader Registry has made to promote good trades. Restojunkie thanks for the welcome. I am also a restorer and love to do it, I stopped to build this program to help others and look forward to getting back into restoring sometime soon. My process is pop the rivet and drill for a new rivet, strip the paint, take the base and the chassis into a tumbler with walnut shell until shinny, I then purchase any metal parts I need from Jon and place them and then I zinc plate with Caswell products, so the new part, chassis and base all have the same tone, then back into the tumbler until shinny again, I then coat the chassis with an adhesion promoter from Bulldog, then I paint the car with paints I purchase from Jon, then my clear coat is done with NAPA's Acrylic Urethane. I love every minute when I am doing it. Not a pro yet still adjusting my processes. Thanks for the one reference of TimmyT are there others like him? Thanks for all your input and I value what all of you have said. Tony... Email: support@PriceRedline.com http://www.PriceRedline.com
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1320 Addict		#14	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 136 07/01/08 03:52 AM	My 2 cents and I'll leave it at this....Restored cars are as we all know dont carry the value of a original car..... just as in SOME cases of a 1:1 "survivor" vs. a restored car. (Barret Jackson has blown the classic car market way out of proportion) Restored cars are worth what any given buyer is willing to pay for them in the fickle market of our hobby. I did almost identical purple king kudas with black roofs.... one sold for 9.99, the other for 62.00. Go figure. I wish you well with this project, but I think the standardization of grading will be a rough one.
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bbb1970AMX		#15	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 585 07/01/08 06:36 AM	Go,PriceRedline.com Denny
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